View source for Template talk:Hatnote templates documentation

{{Talk page of redirect|merge=yes}}
{{Merged to|Wikipedia:Hatnote}}
{{tfdend|date=23 January 2011|merge=Template:Section template list|result=merge}}

==Obnoxious==
Most of these otheruses templates are obnoxious and sometimes their use is horribly irresponsible.  Someone slaps one of these onto an article without thinking closely and it says, in effect "For other uses of women, see..." or "For other things to use arsenic trioxides for, see..." (poisoning people, maybe), etc.  Wikipedia is not supposed to be a dictionary, defining the ''uses'' of a ''word''.  Rather, an article is supposed to be about the thing it's about, not about the ''word'' that names the thing.  Conseequently, to say "For other senses of this word, see...", making it clear that you're referring to the ''word'', would seem appropriate.  The dablink template is adaptable and can be used intelligently or stupidly; the "otheruses" template are one-size-fits-all straightjackets and can seldom be used intelligently. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 21:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

:I disagree entirely.  Very often, a word can mean multiple things, and we have separate articles on each of those things.  It's only logical, in such cases, to have a standardized template with which to refer the reader to the appropriate other articles.  {{tl|dablink}} does nothing whatsoever to standardize Wikipedian conventions and make us look professional, since everyone uses their own words. &mdash;[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 05:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

"Look professional"???  Does it look professional when it says "For other uses of personal lubricants, see..." and "For other uses of slaves, see..."?  I wouldn't mind a standardized template if it were not idiotic and allowed reasonable adaptations. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 20:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

: It would be much more helpful if you'd not make [[straw man]] arguments.  Your examples above (personal lubricants, slaves) are not actual usage. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 22:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

How do you know that?  I read "For other uses of Honey, see..." (with a capital initial "H").  It resulted from the use of one of these templates.  I've seen lots of pages where the phrase could reasonably be construed as a link to an article about other uses of the thing the article was about, rather than other uses of the term.  People who edit this template seem seldom to notice which pages use them, and people slap them on to pages pretty indiscriminately.  These pages are inflexible and cannot be judiciously adapted to the pages on whcih they appear. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 03:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

:The confusion about what the link refers to will only be exacerbated by lack of standardization.  If we standardize otheruses templates, then we can clarify the formatting of all articles with a single edit.  For instance, I've just [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AOtheruses1&diff=45070322&oldid=42937355 clarified] all {{tl|otheruses1}} templates in response to your issue with their wording.  With just dablink, the misuses would have had to be hunted down and eliminated one by one.<p>(I've also just standardized [[Honey]], by the way, using that very template.  Do you find it ambiguous or otherwise undesirable?) &mdash;[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 06:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)</p>

==Deletions==
Templates which start "This article is about..." have been repeatedly deleted on TFD. The information is redundant as it should be in the first line of the article. Please do not create a template that starts with this phrase. <span style="font-family: Verdana;">[[User:ed_g2s|ed g2s]] • [[User talk:ed_g2s|talk]]</span> 16:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:TFDs do not set policy, and your interpretation of the motives behind months-old TFDs are not binding.  If you would like to establish a policy to deprecate such templates, please see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)]], [[Wikipedia:Hatnotes]], and/or [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation]], the latter two of which explicitly endorse templates such as Otheruses4 (albeit the former rather confusedly).  As of now, I have seen you present no evidence that there is or was any kind of wide consensus against the use of these templates, and indeed consensus at [[Template talk:Otheruses4]] appears to be against you. &mdash;[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 05:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

== intelligence ==

:''(moved from template)''
I noticed that redirect5, unlike some of these templates, at least ALLOWS the editor not be a stupid illiterate.  But is there some style manual to which users of template can be directed on which we can put suggestions on how to use those among these templates that are adaptable?  In particular, that template allows the reader to choose between a capital and a lower-case initial.  Lots of Wikipedians seem to think, incorrectly, the capitalization is required in these things. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 23:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== Otheruses vs. Foruse? ==

Is there ever is reason to use Otheruses and a different reason to use Foruse? or is it just a matter of whatever the editor wants to use on any article?

Are there articles that Otheruses should be used for that don't make it clear in the first sentence what this article is about? I'm just wondering if there is a legitimate reason to have a template that has the 'this article is about' and a template that doesn't. Or is it just that different people have different tastes? Because I assume most people feel that all uses should either be otheruses or foruse... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] 15:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

:There is no [[Template:Foruse]].  In any case, the differences between the various templates are mainly due to stylistic preferences: some people (such as me) find "for other uses" jarring when not preceded by something for ''other'' to modify (they require the reader to read past the sentence to make sense), while others find the description redundant and annoying.  As for when to use each, if it doesn't say "for other uses" nobody would particularly care if the summary went away, presumably; a simple {{[[Template:For|for]]|x|y}} ("<nowiki>:''For x, see [[y]].''</nowiki>") would make everyone happy there.  Other than that, it's up to you. —[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 22:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

==Two other uses==
Hehehe, I was just going to use the "wrong" {{tl|two other uses}} version. It solved my problem at NHK :-( These templates do nothing at all, not even add articles to a category... -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 03:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

== Otheruses4 ==

Why would [[User:EdC|EdC]] want to reference <code>{{[[Template:Otheruses4|Otheruses4]]|THIS TOPIC|OTHER TOPIC|PAGE}}</code> in the "For" section?  See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Otheruses_templates&diff=next&oldid=106869805 this diff] for details.  I'm tempted to revert [[User:EdC|EdC]]'s change, but perhaps someone can convince me not to. &nbsp; — [[User:JeffGent|Jeff G.]] <span class="plainlinksneverexpand">([[User talk:JeffGent|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/User:JeffGent|contribs]])</span> 05:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:Reverted, due to overwhelming apathy. :) &nbsp; — [[User:JeffGent|Jeff G.]] <span class="plainlinksneverexpand">([[User talk:JeffGent|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/User:JeffGent|contribs]])</span> 00:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

==Table of example usages==
In an effort to get a better understanding of which templates to use and how, I have put together [[Wikipedia:Otheruses templates (example usage)|this table]]. Comments would be appreciated.... [[User:TimR|TimR]] 09:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

== They use it in the other way ==

they use <nowiki>:''This article is about ______. For the _____ see ____''</nowiki> instead of the templates listed in the box. This is not subst. And this method should not be used. [[User:Jer10 95|Jer10 95]] <small>[[User talk:Jer10 95|Talk]]</small> 01:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


Old way:

<nowiki>:''This article is about ______. For the _____ see ____''</nowiki>

New ways:

<nowiki>{{dablink|:This article is about ______. For the _____ see ____}}</nowiki>

{{otheruses}}

== [[Template:Redirect5]] updated with correct usage ==

I had noticed that <code>{{tl|Redirect5}}</code> was being shown on this documentation page, but it's usage appeared incorrect. I realized after going to the template page that it was a redirect to <code>{{tl|Redirect}}</code>. I then went to update it so that it works the way it should.

So I'm just posting this here to let everyone know how it should be used and that it should ''not'' be confused with <code>{{tl|Redirect}}</code>.


Current ''intended'' use of the template:
*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect5|Redirect5]]|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1|USE2|PAGE2<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect<!--5-->|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1|USE2|PAGE2}}
*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect5|Redirect5]]|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1||PAGE2<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect<!--5-->|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1||PAGE2}}
*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect5|Redirect5]]|REDIRECT||PAGE1||PAGE2<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect<!--5-->|REDIRECT||PAGE1||PAGE2}}


Current ''non-''intended use, but works in the same way as <code>{{tl|Redirect}}</code> as you can see in the following examples:
*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect5|Redirect5]]|REDIRECT||PAGE<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect<!--5-->|REDIRECT||PAGE}}
:*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect|Redirect]]|REDIRECT||PAGE<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect|REDIRECT||PAGE}}
*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect5|Redirect5]]|REDIRECT|USE|PAGE<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect<!--5-->|REDIRECT|USE|PAGE}}
:*<code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Redirect|Redirect]]|REDIRECT|USE|PAGE<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>: {{Redirect|REDIRECT|USE|PAGE}}

--[[User:Lightsup55|<b style="font-family:Comic Sans MS; text-transform:lowercase; color:#008000;">Lightsup55</b>]] <span style="font-size: x-small">( [[User talk:Lightsup55|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Lightsup55|C]] )</span> 16:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

==Shouldn't [[PAGE1]] and [[PAGE2]] be protected from creation?==
Shouldn't [[PAGE (disambiguation)]] and other pages like it be protected from creation considering the amount of template links to it from templates? -- '''[[User:OlEnglish|OlEnglish]]''' <sup>([[User talk:OlEnglish|Talk]])</sup> 06:17, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I've started a RfD discussion regarding this at [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2009_August_28#PAGE]]. -- [[User:OlEnglish|<span style="font-size:x-large;">&oelig;</span>]][[User talk:OlEnglish|<sup>&trade;</sup>]] 23:53, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

== Redirect6 ==

What's the correct way of documenting optional variables? I found the two optional variables in this template through trial and error, but I think it would be useful to have them explicitly stated -- [[User:Bobyllib|Bobyllib]] ([[User talk:Bobyllib|talk]]) 17:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

:I'm not quite sure I understand your question.. all the parameters, including the ones for redirect6, are documented on the [[Template:Otheruses templates|template page]]. Which two 'optional parameters' are you referring to? -- [[User:OlEnglish|<span style="font-size:x-large;">&oelig;</span>]][[User talk:OlEnglish|<sup>&trade;</sup>]] 01:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

::There is no documentation of the parameters on the template page. All that we have are examples, and the user is supposed to figure out what is happening from the examples.
::For example, the "Other uses of the same title" section. As the first example, the we give an example with "USE1", but never say what "USE1" is. We should explain that "USE1" is a plain text description of the article where the hatnote appears. Like on the [[Knuckleball]] page, USE1 is "the baseball pitch", not "Knuckleball" or <nowiki>[[Knuckleball]]</nowiki>. And we doesn't explain that the default behavior is insert a link to a disambiguation page for the title of the article where the hatnote appears. We just give an example that links to the non-existing disambiguation page of the template documentation page itself (not USE1). That's confusing.
::Then after "USE1", there are optional parameters, which the examples seem to suggest should be used in pairs, where "USE2" is a plain text description of another page, and "PAGE2" is the plain text title of another page. It doesn't explain that the template expects additional paramters to come in pairs, and doesn't explain the rule for how these pairs are handled. 
::Without an explanation of the rule, how is the user supposed to understand what the template is going to do with an empty second parameter followed by a different page name? 
::There is also one magic word. We mention {{tlf|!}}, without explaining that this is a syntax for including a pipe statement in a template. (You can get this information by searching for "Template:!", which sends you to a soft redirect to a page on MediaWiki. We should explain it here.) The template also suggests "and" and "other uses" as default plain text page descriptions in description/page pairs. If that's what they are, we should say so.
::And other problems. Apparently all of this explanation is a transclusion from the doc page for {{tl|About}}. I guess I'll have to take these suggestions there. But the explanations of other hatnotes have the same problems. No wonder editors have to experiment before learning how to use them. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 19:37, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Most of these templates are hopelessly confusing until you've played around with them. I use them a lot and still get very confused by them. Most of the time I have to preview the hatnote several times to make sure I'm getting the parameters right (or to try a different template to see if it is somewhat less counterintuitive) [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 19:59, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
::::Thanks. So it's not just me. I guess after a rant like that I have to try to do better. Maybe I'll try to make a test page with some explanation and concrete examples in it, and see what people say. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 23:08, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

== New Template:Otherpersons3 ==

"[[George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron]]" recently had an {{tl|otherpersons}} hatnote added: ''"For other persons named Lord Byron, see [[Baron Byron]]."'' And that was well done, I thought, except for the pedantic, niggling, ''itching'' little thought that technically "Lord Byron" wasn't his ''name'' but the ''honorific'' associated with his title (and now with the 13th Baron's), so really the hatnote should say "titled" rather than "named".

I've created a modified version of the template, {{tl|otherpersons3}}, to allow that. It works exactly like {{tl|otherpersons}} in all other respects, and if you use only the first one or two variables you'll never notice the difference. Add a third variable, like "titled" or "nicknamed" or "known as", and that will replace the "named" in the note. This is documented. I've replaced the hatnote in the Byron article, and it works.

If it also passes your own fiercest scrutiny, you may want to consider moving it into {{tl|otherpersons}}, since the change should be transparent.  <small>— [[User:Sizzle Flambé|'''Sizzle&nbsp;Flambé''']] ([[User_talk:Sizzle Flambé|☎]]/[[Special:Contributions/Sizzle_Flambé|✍]]) 01:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)</small>

:Looks nice, and as a solid proponent of less numbered variants of templates I'd support merging it with {{tl|otherpersons}}. However, otheruses templates in general have a pattern for using positional parameters that this is very different from and I'd rather make these templates function more similarly rather than more differently. What do you think about naming this parameter? For example, what about {{tlp|otherpersons|NAME|PAGE|named{{=}}titled}}, in fact, this would also allow you to use this feature without using the first two, such as {{tlp|otherpersons|named{{=}}titled}} which ought to look like {{<nowiki>otherpersons3</nowiki>|{{PAGENAME}}|{{PAGENAME}} (disambiguation)|titled}} I'm open to other names for the parameter as well, just my first thought. Cheers, —&nbsp;[[User:sligocki|sligocki]] ([[User talk:sligocki|talk]]) 07:25, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

::I'm agreeable; or in other words, I'd take that as a friendly amendment. Done. <small>— [[User:Sizzle Flambé|'''Sizzle&nbsp;Flambé''']] ([[User_talk:Sizzle Flambé|☎]]/[[Special:Contributions/Sizzle_Flambé|✍]]) 09:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)</small><br />{{<nowiki>otherpersons3</nowiki>|named=titled}}

== Wikipedia:Shortcut? ==

This template page contains good information about the usage of the templates. Should it be nice to have some type of [[Wikipedia:Shortcut]]? --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:19, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
: What about "T:OU"? T = for template (guidelines), O = Other, U = Uses. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 21:25, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:: I have been [[WP:BOLD]] and implemented this. Hopefully you like it. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 10:26, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

== A perplexing problem about "about" - Advanced Editor Needed ==
When one visits [[Template:Otheruses_templates#About]], everything seems fine; that is, until you encounter the line with USE5 and no |PAGE5 immediately following it. So, the activist editor goes to correct the problem, but finds that the following at that location:

<nowiki>* '''<code>{{tlp|About|USE1|USE2|PAGE2|USE3|PAGE3|USE4|PAGE4|USE5|PAGE5}}</code>''' (When there are up to five other uses — You should generally create a [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation|disambiguation page]] at this point) {{About|USE1|USE2|PAGE2|USE3|PAGE3|USE4|PAGE4|USE5|PAGE5}}</nowiki>

Are there any ideas as to how this can be? [[User:Adavis444|Adavis444]] ([[User talk:Adavis444|talk]]) 09:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
:The About template had two documentation parts: one specific text on 'About', and then the standard 'Other uses templates documentation' transcluded. Exactly the "|PAGE5" was missing in the About-text (and is present in the templated doc). This was the only difference. I deleted the specific text from Template:About/doc. The remaining text (the tempolated doc) has the |PAGE5 mentioned. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 14:03, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

== Why not named [[:Template talk:Other uses templates - ''documentation''/doc]] ==

When trying to improve the documentation and categorisation in these (Hatnote) templates, this is my worst discovery so far. Either it shout be called [[:Template talk:Other uses templates/doc]], or ... well what else? Even worse: there is even a '''/doc'''for this page - hay that's great! So see [[:Template talk:Other uses templates - documentation/doc]], which might be OK as an idea, but does not work. We, guards & creatos of the Kingdom of Templates, should prevent such a lower kingdom of individual ideas. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 23:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

== Merge with [[Template:Section template list]] ==
* {{lts|Section template list}}
* {{lts|Hatnote templates documentation}}
After [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_January_23#Template:Section_template_list|this TfD]], this template ("Htd") will be merged with [[Template:Section template list]] ("Section"). The latter "Section" one is to be redirected. I suggest this process:
# '''Crosscheck''': Whatever examples are in Section, are they present in "Hatnotes T doc"? {{done|three were added}}<br>
# '''Precheck visual effects''' when template "Section" will change (smart eye) {{done|No harm done to articles}} Other spaces like Talk still look nice when Redirect. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:24, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
# '''Change''' "Section" from content to redirect. '''Done''' [[User:Plastikspork|Plastikspork]] [[User talk:Plastikspork|<sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ</sub><sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)</sup>]] 20:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
# '''Housekeeping''': delete Section/doc, check other hatnote documentation,  [[:Category:Hatnote templates]] &tc.
# Write: '''Done''' here. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 19:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)<br>
{{done}} -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

==Is there a suitable template for this==

See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pi&diff=464260240&oldid=464253992 this edit]. But is there a suitable template?

If not IMO one should be written or modified to suit; If so perhaps the documentation needs tweaking to make it easier to find. [[User:Andrewa|Andrewa]] ([[User talk:Andrewa|talk]]) 19:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
:For these situations, there is the basic cover all {{tlx|hatnote|<nowiki>Any text goes here, see [[Main page]]</nowiki>}} &rarr; {{hatnote|Any text goes here, see [[Main page]]}}. Most other hatnote templates use this one behind the screens, and add a specialisation. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]])

::Thank you! [[User:Andrewa|Andrewa]] ([[User talk:Andrewa|talk]]) 01:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Well we don't have one already, but I think a {{temp|redirect-technical}} should be written, or possibly even add a "technical=yes" parameter to each of the existing "redirect" suite of templates. If set, this would just change "[[foo]] redirects here. For [[bar]]..." to "[[foo]] redirects here for technical reasons. For [[bar]]...". [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 02:14, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
:Hm, "technical reasons" in the hatnote to me is enlarging the question. At least there should be an explanation (-link). Where would it link ''without'' these reasons? Anyway, are there any good examples for this? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 17:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
::[[I]] is another page that would get this if that's what you mean. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 06:15, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::I hope it is what ''you'' mean ;-). So, the example shows my point: ''what would it redirect to if there was no technical reason''? And: what ''is'' that technical reason (needs some link to WP:... I suggest)? (of course, no need to explain for this example). -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 12:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
:::Adding: the example [[I]] <s>could use</s> uses a "See [[Dotted and dotless I|dotted I]] for ..." part in such a this hatnote, which is part of the solution. By the way, before someone starts searching: there is no regular Redirect page for '''<big>ı</big>'''. The pagename is changed into I before opening. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 17:18, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

== See also vs. Further ==

The documentation gives no direction for when to use [[Template:Further]] and when to use [[Template:See also]]. Intuitively they mean the same thing to me, or else Further is the same thing as Main. --[[User:Jfhutson|JFH]] ([[User talk:Jfhutson|talk]]) 22:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
:Indeed. Discussed [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 March 4]]. Others did see a difference worth keeping. More talks and discussions on this exist. Note: templates may have been renumbered after an XfD, the XfD may not relect the correct (discussed) text any more. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 03:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

== RfC about main/details/further ==
See [[Template talk:Main#RfC]]. [[User:Someone not using his real name|Someone not using his real name]] ([[User talk:Someone not using his real name|talk]]) 01:27, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

== Centralized talk page ==

Since [[Template:For/doc]] is little more than a transclusion of this doc template, it seems like it would be reasonable to [[WP:TALKCENT|centralize]] it here. Thoughts? &mdash;[[User:SamB|SamB]] ([[User talk:SamB|talk]]) 00:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
:So, all hatnote/doc talks to be on one single talkpage. Sounds good to me. Does TALKCENT have a solution for talkpages that already have talks? (if no, still go ahead I'd say). -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 10:10, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
::The usual practice for the /doc page of templates is that the /doc's talk page redirects to the talk page of the template, not to the talk page of another /doc. So [[Template talk:For/doc]] should redirect to [[Template talk:For]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:26, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

== Trailing periods ==

With custom text fields, could the templates only add an extra period (<code>.</code>) if the custom text does not itself end in one? So, ''e''.''g''. {{tlx|hatnote|Foo}} would produce "Foo."; {{tlx|hatnote|Foo.}} would produce "Foo."; and {{tlx|hatnote|Foo..}} would produce "Foo.."? ''I''.''e''. you would only get more than one trailing period if you typed them in yourself. Thanks. '''[[User:It Is Me Here|<span style="color:#006600;">It Is Me Here</span>]]''' <sup>'''[[User_talk:It Is Me Here|<span style="color:#CC6600;">t</span>]] / [[Special:Contributions/It Is Me Here|<span style="color:#CC6600;">c</span>]]'''</sup> 17:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

== Other popes named Stephen ==

Would it be possible to delete this section from the documentation? The template <nowiki>{{Pope Stephen ToP Dab}}</nowiki> was created for the articles [[Pope Stephen III]] through [[Pope Stephen IX]]. It is already used in all of those articles, and will probably be never be used again. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 05:19, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, it cleans the place. Maybe a 'see also' mentioning? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 11:45, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

::Thanks, I would like to delete it, but I don't know how. Information is being transcluded to so many places. I'm afraid that if I delete this section I will be erasing the only documentation that exists for this template. What I would like to do is delete it from this page and then add the information that I'm proposing below to the documentation page of the template, in such a way that it would exist only there and not be transcluded anywhere else. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 02:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Hatnote templates have their own /doc subpage, as usual. In there you can add specific note.
::*{{tl|Further/doc}}
::*{{tl|Pope Stephen ToP Dab/doc}}
:::Also, ''in'' a /doc page you can see transcluded the generic universal documentation {{tl|Hatnote templates documentation}}
:::You can edit this one separately {{t links|Hatnote templates documentation}}
:::So you might want to remove that Pope hatnote from that universal documentation, and add some not to the specific /doc. Did this help? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 12:28, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
::::OK. I've edited. See next section. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

== Template description form ==
As an editor, what I would like is for every template to have a form like the following on its documentation page.

'''Name'''
:Pope Stephen ToP Dab
'''Purpose'''
:This template displays a hatnote to explain differences in the ordinal numbering of Catholic popes who took the name Stephen.
'''Syntax'''
:<nowiki>Pope Stephen ToP Dab|{{{1}}}</nowiki>
'''Default parameters <small>(! required)</small>'''
:!1: A roman numeral that is 1 less than the ordinal in the title of the article where this hatnote appears.
'''Named parameters <small>(! required)</small>'''
:None.
'''Example'''
:<nowiki>{{Pope Stephen ToP Dab|II}}</nowiki>
'''Output'''
:''Note: In some sources, this pope is called Stephen&nbsp;IV and [[Pope Stephen II]] is called Stephen&nbsp;III. See [[Pope-elect Stephen]] for detailed explanations.''
'''Notes'''
:This template should be used in the articles [[Pope Stephen III]] through [[Pope Stephen IX]].

This seems like kind of the minimum of what you would see on a Man page or the description of a function in an programming API. If every template had a form like this, then editors could go there for a complete description of what it does, and help authors could refer to it for guidance about how to explain it. Also it would help if anyone had to approve it. Sorry, I'm just an editor and know nothing about templates. Is there an approval process or can anybody write one? --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 02:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Margin1522}} OK. I have edited {{tlx|Pope Stephen ToP Dab/doc}} to describe what you wrote. I tried to make it understandable for those who do not know about this numbering topic (like me, but I still don't get the "minus 1" text).
:I also changed {{tlx|Hatnote templates documentation}}. The Stephan hatnote is no more a main section.
:Is this OK for you? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 20:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
::{{reply|DePiep}}Thank you very much. That is perfect, exactly what I wanted to do.
::The problem is that some sources didn't  recognize one pope, and some did, so there were two numbering schemes. The person who coded the template apparently found it easier to work with a parameter that is 1 less than the number that appears in the article title. Which is fine, it works and displays the proper message.
::And sorry for the interruption. I was breaking a netiquette rule here by asking a question without investigating the history of how things came to be like they are. Next time I will find out more more about template documentation before asking. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 21:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Thx. I did not see any problem wrt etiquette. And I still don't get the VII=numbering issue this template addresses (of course, I could click a link or two - but hey, the doc must be OK  by itself). -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 21:14, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
:::btw, the hatnote at [[Pope-elect Stephen]] (pointed to from this one) is illegibele. I do not understand (and I can count, really). Why not write something like: "the numbering was fucked up, there is a +1/-1 difference with these popes". Now please focus on thise numbering issue. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 21:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
::::You mean it's incomprehensible? I agree it could be clearer. The problem is that this Stephen (called by some Stephen II) was elected but died before he could be consecrated. Therefore some sources say that this Stephen was not a pope and the real Stephen II was the next one. Instead of calling the next one III, we should call him II. Hence the double numbering schemes. Anyway I really like the way you added the Usage section. That seems like an excellent way to handle special parameters like this one. --[[User:Margin1522|Margin1522]] ([[User talk:Margin1522|talk]]) 01:56, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

== re BD2412: what does this say? ==

re {{U|BD2412}} I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Hatnote_templates_documentation&diff=622896323&oldid=622886301 still] do not understand what your edit says. (really, I know about hatnotes, disambiguation, and linking). I propose to remove the text, or make is crystal clear. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 22:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
: Ok, I have tried to clear it up a bit more. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:07, 19 September 2014 (UTC)